TPWD Commissioners Propose Youth Rifle Season for the Month of October - Page 6

mesquitecountry · 11-12-2008, 08:17 AM

Just like to point out the blatantly obvious changing of your opinion on stress into relation of gun hunters tracy.

Quote:

The stress factor is not an issue for gun hunting. The deer can't outrun the bullet like it can an arrow.

Then you changed your mind back. LOL!

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I think the primary problem is the actual hunter traffic. The more human scent left in the deers "safe haven", the less safe it feels and the more likely it will lay up and/or become skittish. The sound of a gun is much akin to thunder and as far as the deer is concerned, one boom in an 8 hour period is gone and forgotten. But, when you have hunters walking the senderos, fencelines and racing their ORVs back and forth looking for a hot stand, the quicker the animals become nocturnal. The other factor is safety. A bullet can travel quite a distance; an arrow a few hundred yards. A bullet will cross "198" mighty quick and with no substantial loss in energy. Just not what you want when you're camo'd top to toe and the shooter doesn't see you sitting 200 yards across the fence. They see "deer" at 100 yards, fence 50 yards further and brush/trees as a backdrop. They don't see bowhunter sitting on a tripod amidst a liveoak crown.

And, gun hunters, pertaining to human interaction, don't have to descent as the bowhunter does, so that means more human scent in the deer's safe haven and back to the going nocturnal thing...

So, safety and shot opportunity diminish quite a bit once the mass of gun hunters enter the picture. I've got 3 kids, so instead of 1 hunter in the woods, there's 4. So, using me as a comparison, that's quite an increase.

I love the safety argument. Because gun hunters and bowhunters arent sitting in the same woods as bow hunters in november, december, january.

Seriously use deductive reasoning. I cant wait till this goes before our legislature. I've already talked to one of the chairs on the committee that this will fall under.

Roscoe · 11-12-2008, 09:06 AM

I've thought about this issue alot over the last few days. The only way I could support opening the season would be for it to be for a trial period of say 2 to 3yrs max, and the success or failure would be determined by increased sales of youth licenses...and I don't mean a 1% increase either. I don't know what the % would/should be, but if the % increase is not met, then the additional time added to the youth season would be eliminated. If this could be written in stone and absolutely adhered to, I might would consider being a yes on the issue. However, I am still unwilling yield on there not being a dedicated archery only season regardless of the success of the trial. For me to consider being a "yes" on the issue would take additional archery only days being added to the calendar elsewhere.

Still, I do not think this is the fix for hunter participation. While I have not looked at all the other states seasonal dates, the few I have looked at seem to show that Texas already has some of the most liberal dates for hunting in terms of days and weapons of choice.

Anyone know how many states do not have a dedicated archery season?

LostHawg · 11-12-2008, 10:59 AM

Travis...

You're almost as bullheaded as I am...

Read what I've posted carefully.

nothinbutwelves · 11-12-2008, 11:04 AM

i dont think we should give an inch trial period or not.it is alot easier to keep your worms in the container than to let some out then put them back up as well as keep the rest in bowhunting in texas is on the firing line and we need to unite and lean hard against the tide of change on this issue.
keep em in the 12 ring.

LostHawg · 11-12-2008, 11:13 AM

I agree. Not an inch David.

Roscoe · 11-12-2008, 12:36 PM

I don't disagree with the fear of giving them an inch and them taking a mile. Really I don't, and I hope you got that sense in how I worded what I said.

That said, I'm not against at least considering some sort of compromise, as long as a dedicated archery only season continues to exist. And I don't mean a shortened one either!

LostHawg · 11-12-2008, 01:03 PM

I think that compromise was the last weekend in October. As well as the removal of the draw weight limit. AND the introduction of the draw-loc!

I think there are plenty of compromises that will allow youth to hunt October Whitetails.

I think a simple "No" will suffice.

Roscoe · 11-12-2008, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LostHawg

I think that compromise was the last weekend in October. As well as the removal of the draw weight limit. AND the introduction of the draw-loc!

I will say that I do believe that more than one year needs to pass to see what, if any effect the above changes had on participation.

LostHawg · 11-12-2008, 01:51 PM

the draw lock has been legal for, I think, 4 years now. No noticeable difference. I don't think they were the marketing wonder the manufacturers thought they'd be.

I don't know how long the last weekend has been youth, I think about 12?

Minimum draw weight removal, I think, can be used very positively, if done right and responsibly. It can also bite us in the butt.

nothinbutwelves · 11-12-2008, 01:55 PM

we will compramise ourselves right out of a bow season if we are not dilligent ! just remember it is alot harder to remove something than it is to block it upon its first awarence.if we give in to this for 1 year or 5 we are doomed,you can mark my words.there is no room for complacency here.it is this kind of apathy that will have our right to keep and bear arms up for grab next.it is called pork and it is how things get passed always on the cuff of a well meant and foreseeably great idea.we cannot blink here.

Roscoe · 11-12-2008, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nothinbutwelves

we will compramise ourselves right out of a bow season if we are not dilligent ! just remember it is alot harder to remove something than it is to block it upon its first awarence.if we give in to this for 1 year or 5 we are doomed,you can mark my words.there is no room for complacency here.it is this kind of apathy that will have our right to keep and bear arms up for grab next.it is called pork and it is how things get passed always on the cuff of a well meant and foreseeably great idea.we cannot blink here.

I am assuming that your comments are in response to my statements above. If not, then I'm off base and apologize. If so, you do not know me well enough to characterize me or my thoughts in such a manner.

nothinbutwelves · 11-12-2008, 03:26 PM

roscoe no i do not believe i know you and i am not trying to put off on you i am trying to save the organization that i love and believe in with all my heart.and if we start saying compromise and such some new archers that do not know the struggle we have had to get to where we are today will be tempted to agree and a little or all is lost.i have said it before and will say it again this is not about kids/youth it is about parents who do not want to take time out of their season to hunt jr.or miss jr.this way they can get the kids hunt over before they start hunting the rut and the big boys.i meant no offence i am just trying to keep what we have and a break in the ranks with words like compromise and give start the undoing ,so i am a if you are not with me you are against me on this issue guy.and i will see you and shake your hand at the end of the race no matter what the outcome.nor what side you take.keep em in the 12 ring

Roscoe · 11-12-2008, 03:58 PM

Thanks for the reply nbt.

nagaranch · 11-12-2008, 06:19 PM

wow, just finished reading all the posts and nothing i can really add, that has not already been said, except i don't think the kiddo's need a special gun season all of oct. i'm a firm believer in teaching a kid to hunt. i don't think it needs to be during the oct. season, there are some other more optimal times that have already been explained in previous posts

BearOmni · 11-12-2008, 06:23 PM

I think any compromise is a loss. They want it, we dont. Anything that allows it to happen no matter how limited is a loss for our side.

I said in my first post on this topic that it could/would get ugly. Any time you speak out AGAINST something that has been packaged as FOR kids most people automatically put you on the "wrong" side.

The LSBA must stick to its bow's on this issue.
It would be prudent to offer options, that way we are part of the solution not part of the problem.
The EC needs to brainstorm and come up with 3 -5 viable options for extending/enhancing the youth season. Or come up with an acceptable reason to end youth seasons all together.

Maybe we could champion a "hunt with your kids" week. Develop guidelines, literature, rules and regs. Put together a list of goals for hunting with kids/introducing kids to hunting.
This is a main goal of the LSBA already, how many youth shoots do yall put on every year? This could be an option to end youth seasons all together.

If we could propose something like this and make it Nov 1st - 7th or even the 10th I think everyone would win. The State would accomplish their goal of having a program in place to incourage youth hunting, and we would still have an Archery only month (except for MLD lands).

Just a thought.