TPWD Commissioners Propose Youth Rifle Season for the Month of October

[mesquitecountry]

I've said on tbh and I'll say it right here again. I do not discredit any of the activities that LSBA puts on for youth. You will never hear those words come out of my mouth. This has nothing to do with the LSBA programs.

We only recruit people that already hunt and we want them to join the bowhunting group.

We need to be recruiting hunters. Not people who have hunted or just gun hunt but anyone that would say yes to the following question.

I know you may be against hunting, but hey why dont you and your kid/wife/cousin niece nephew come down with me and hunt some squirrels/hogs/deer with rifles,bows,slingshots, eat some good food and enjoy the peace of the outdoors. We'd love to have you as apart of the outdoorsman family.



Then recruit them to bowhunting after the fact.

I'm sorry but me as an indivdual entity can do much more by doing this than I can just helping out at a sponsored event. Not discrediting or anything just saying I can do much more on my dime and time.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by mesquitecountry

To carry on the sport i'd give it up in a heart beat. For just someone to shoot it to shoot it no, under our high fence. I wouldnt let a kid shoot a deer that big for the first buck at our place. I guess you just dont understand how our family works. We give back because we have been given plenty.

Low fence if the buck jumped the fence and was shot by a youth hunter on opening weekend of bow season with a rifle I'd congratulate him/her and be as happy as can be.

Sometimes you have to sacrifice to gain. Granted I'd much rather shoot the deer but if someone else did no problem here! I shot him because he was the biggest I've ever seen. I dont shoot deer like that back to back to back. We rotate on our ranch. We all give and take. No selfishness.

If you think i'm full of it so be it. I've put in the time, i alone have introduced 8 new hunters to bow hunting this season alone! Have taken numerous youth hunters/new hunters/vets over the last 5 years and will continue to do so. I'm not looking for a pat on the back or for anyone here to justify what I do. I do it cause I actually care about this sport.



In regard to guns. You or anyone can get MLD right now and start blazing away with guns in October. The doom and gloom you keep predicting is here and the sky is not falling yet.

Travis I'm not questioning at all you or your family's commitment to getting folks involved in hunting at your ranch. That is a commendable thing to do but what you and others are advocating flies in the face of what those before you and me have done for the sport of bowhunting in Texas and that I can't condone. I am done now.

[Tomme]

Mesquitecountry where I disagree with you is your apparent belief that more youth rifle weekends in October is necessary for youth recruitment. With 10-15 weekends already available for kids to rifle hunt deer, this will, (in my view) have little impact in terms of youth recruitment. It is not time to hunt that is restricting kids from hunting it's affordable leases and places to go.

In addition if you are interested in continuing hunting as a tradition in Texas you need to broaden your view to include not just new hunter recruitment, but also hunter retention as well.

I would not be a hunter today if it were not for the special archery season and bowhunting. On the small acreage leases I could afford in Central Texas the deer disappeared after opening weekend of rifle season. A 30 day season where I could at least see deer in October kept me going. If you "ruined" the opportunity to hunt on those small acreages in October, I and many like me would not be around and you'd have a net loss in hunter numbers.

In addition, you can bowhunt many more people on an archery lease than you can one that is primarily for rifles. This includes kids. With the decision to do away with the minimim poundage draw weight, practically any kid can bowhunt. A good example was at the recent LSBA deer hunt at the Palmer ranch where a 9 year old harvested an 8 pt.

Instead of trying to encourage all kids to become rifle hunters during archery season, why not encourage them to pick up a bow. My youngest son (who is now 29) remarked on one of his first bow hunts that "This (bowhunting) is a lot harder than hunting with a rifle, and a lot more fun."

Let's don't degrade an existing season, but rather encourage kids to bowhunt. Those that do, will be much more likely to become lifetime hunters which is really the desired goal. What about a "youth only" archery weekend the weekend before archery season starts. Now that might work toward hunter recruitment indeed.

[mesquitecountry]

That is a commendable thing to do but what you and others are advocating flies in the face of what those before you and me have done for the sport of bowhunting in Texas and that I can't condone.

Why is it that everytime someone that comes along that is younger that wants to improve something it is given a negative connotation Bill?

I know this is far fetched but it is an analogy not really pertinent but an analogy nonetheless.

Slavery was supposedly a great thing at one time, well we all know for a fact that it was one of the most devastating misuse of power in history. Not comparing the two but just playing the devils advocate.

I'm not for opening october to all hunters with rifles and I'm glad we have a bow season in Texas. But the youth are our future and all I hear is I dont want guns blasting around me shooting "my" deer. I'm not saying this is the answer to promote hunting. Probably wont even work. But we must do something.

Let's don't degrade an existing season, but rather encourage kids to bowhunt. Those that do, will be much more likely to become lifetime hunters which is really the desired goal. What about a "youth only" archery weekend the weekend before archery season starts. Now that might work toward hunter recruitment indeed.

Tomme,

Oddly enough I agree with you on this last paragraph. I think that would drive up bowhunting opportunities and recruitment.

Retension is really a case by case issue. Some people will just stop. It's like the unemployment rate. You always have some that want to but choose not to.

In regards to your reference of your son. In all actuality he is not the demographic we are chasing. Really we should not focus on the kids that we know are going to hunt in some form or another.

You see it as degrading. I see it as an opportunity.

[Tomme]

Mesquite you said

"In regards to your reference of your son. In all actuality he is not the demographic we are chasing. Really we should not focus on the kids that we know are going to hunt in some form or another."

You added

"You see it as degrading. I see it as an opportunity."


Mesquite, I have four kids, all tried hunting with a rifle. Only one took up bowhunting and he is the only one that still hunts, so you are wrong when you say that this is not the demographic we are chasing. If there hadn't been an archery season he never would have tried bowhunting and I would have no kids that still hunt.

As you know I pointed to the degrading of the archery season due to an intrusion of rifle hunters. I think that it readily and logically apparent to those of us who have had to hunt on small acreages. I regularly hunted and introduced others to hunting on my Texas vet tract of 35 acres in Burnet county. Lots of deer (small, but lots of deer). And yes putting rifle hunters on the next small acreage tract would have degraded the heck out of the season.

You say that you see it as an opportunity, but you failed to point out why that is the case. I asked previously, why if kids already have the opportunity to deer hunt with a rifle on weekends in November, December and January plus a weekend in October that they need the other October weekends. You failed to answer that question.

Plenty of opportunities for youth rifle hunting for deer already exist plus many more opportunities to take a kid squirrel hunting, rabbit hunting etc. You haven't given any arguments for why these weekends are needed.

Let me make a suggestion to you. Go to Parks and Wildlife and propose that only youth be allowed to hunt with a rifle for the first nine days of the rifle (general season). That's the first two weekends plus the intervening weekdays. If you truly believe in more youth rifle opportunities at any cost then you will support this even though it takes away from your season. But hey don't look at it as taking away or degrading your season, look at it as an opportunity.

I imagine you'll say that this isn't the same as this doesn't allow people to hunt during that time. I've got news for you, putting hunters with rifles right next door to my small archery stand doesn't allow me to hunt either.

We don't need 4 more youth hunt weekends. I don't believe it will do much to recruit youth hunters. It will hurt the archery season.

[BearOmni]

Originally Posted by biggen

Bear would you like to be on the EC?

I would like to help as much as I can. As far as being on the EC......first I need to get off my butt and send Dena some money I always say "I need to join the LSBA" but put off calling Dena till "next week" and it just hasent happened yet. But it will...soon.

I truly believe in what yall are doing for our sport and our rights and want to be a part of it. I did donate a lot of money at the LSBA banquet this year so that should count for something...

Anyway, I will be contacting Dena on the 21st (thats when I get home) and I'll gladly pay my dues and join the fight as a member.

Until then I will still be glad to help any way I can. All you have to do is ask.

[BearOmni]

Originally Posted by BearOmni

first I need to get off my butt and send Dena some money I always say "I need to join the LSBA" but put off calling Dena till "next week" and it just hasent happened yet. But it will...soon.

Just figured out I could join from the site using pay pal. Done deal, I'm all signed up now!

[LostHawg]

Welcome aboard Omni.

As to the rifle hunting in October weekend thing.

The LSBA is a bowhunting organization in the endeavor to promote and preserve bowhunting. It only makes sense that our intent is to preserve the archery season. Allowing the use of rifles during the archery season is not doing that.

And yes, we are pursuing getting more youth involved in hunting. Look at all the work Ronny and them did in concert with Palmer to get those kids on stand. How about our efforts at the Expo and the various shows. Look what Dena and Bob are doing? How about Kevin Hilbig? That guy has bent over backwards for the kids. Buff? Shoot, we've put as much or more effort in this preservation of our short 30 days than any other organization does for the other 335.

I say no to rifle weekends and no to extending the rifle season. October is for archery.

Not to mention 3D.

[mesquitecountry]

You say that you see it as an opportunity, but you failed to point out why that is the case. I asked previously, why if kids already have the opportunity to deer hunt with a rifle on weekends in November, December and January plus a weekend in October that they need the other October weekends. You failed to answer that question.

It is an opportunity for more days make it easier for more youth and their families to get a "headstart". Kids deserve a head start as much as anyone. Why not give them a chance to kill a good buck before every tom dick and joe blast a buck on your neighboring 35 acres. They're going to die most likely anyway. Why not give kids a chance.

Mesquite, I have four kids, all tried hunting with a rifle. Only one took up bowhunting and he is the only one that still hunts, so you are wrong when you say that this is not the demographic we are chasing. If there hadn't been an archery season he never would have tried bowhunting and I would have no kids that still hunt.

If your kids wouldnt have tried bowhunting then that is your duty as their leader. If they fall out of hunting then somewhere along the line we failed them by not giving them enough. But your children are not the demographic we are looking for. Your children, being that you have an extremely proud hunting back ground would be almost guaranteed to hunt. We as a group need kids that would never pick up a gun or bow and take them to hunt. Picking up every person that PETA has missed. That's who we need. I'm sorry but your's and my kids or anyone else that's on this site or tbh are not the kids that we need to worry about. We need numbers.

Let me make a suggestion to you. Go to Parks and Wildlife and propose that only youth be allowed to hunt with a rifle for the first nine days of the rifle (general season). That's the first two weekends plus the intervening weekdays. If you truly believe in more youth rifle opportunities at any cost then you will support this even though it takes away from your season. But hey don't look at it as taking away or degrading your season, look at it as an opportunity.

I'm a bowhunter not just a rifle hunter. My preferred method always has been bowhunting. I'm all for taking away from my season. I just think it should be done in bow season! General season is already set in place. Why would we change what they already have. We need to provide more opportunities. More opportunities equals more time in the woods for kids. Dont go into the well their parents should be going during general season. That is irrelevant. If we picked up 5 extra youth hunters because of this than we did our job. That's 5 more than we didnt have yesterday.

I imagine you'll say that this isn't the same as this doesn't allow people to hunt during that time. I've got news for you, putting hunters with rifles right next door to my small archery stand doesn't allow me to hunt either.

Thank you for proving my point. Selfishness will be the death of our sport. You dont want youth to hunt to be able to shoot a deer next door to you. You dont want them to shoot crossbows. You dont want anyone hunting on "your" month. If you dont like your lease and the neighbors are screwing it up then do what any american does. Work harder and get something you like. Somebody could start gun hunting MLD next door to you tomorrow and their not a thing you could do about it. Wouldnt you at least rather have kids smiling with a buck or someone shooting 10 deer for culls that you would have been proud to kill.

At least you have been steady in your ideology. You only want "your" way.

This is why our sport is dying. Because selfishness and greed, because we as a whole are unwilling to give up anything of "ours" to carry on the torch.

I've hunted low fence, low population, small acreage. Does it suck. Yes! If you dont like the way your neighbors hunt get up and go talk to them. TPWD has done an excellent job putting in antler restrictions and improving populations. Now it is up to us to make sure we continue on the heritage.

[BearOmni]

Originally Posted by mesquitecountry

I'm a bowhunter not just a rifle hunter. My preferred method always has been bowhunting. I'm all for taking away from my season. I just think it should be done in bow season! General season is already set in place. Why would we change what they already have.

Umm, Archery season is already set in place too.

I dont know this for a fact, but have been told that bow hunters proposed a self imposed "tax" (archery stamp) to be allowed to hunt in Oct. This was done so hunts could take place without competition from gun hunters.

As has been said MANY times already, there are already special youth only days, and they can hunt ALL season anyway. Why let them hunt with a gun during October? If they want to hunt in Oct, teach them to shoot a bow.

I've hunted low fence, low population, small acreage. Does it suck. Yes! If you dont like the way your neighbors hunt get up and go talk to them. TPWD has done an excellent job putting in antler restrictions and improving populations. Now it is up to us to make sure we continue on the heritage.

I agree 100%, we should strive to continue our bow hunting heritage to kids and adults during Oct and all season long. We should also strive to continue our hunting heritage during all of general season using all legal means.

[LostHawg]

Shoot, they could even make January 15 through February 15 a youth season. There are just too many alternatives for P&W that they don't even need to mess with October.

[mesquitecountry]

As has been said MANY times already, there are already special youth only days, and they can hunt ALL season anyway. Why let them hunt with a gun during October? If they want to hunt in Oct, teach them to shoot a bow.

One weekend for youth hunting is a joke. How many times do you think a prior engagement comes up where that child is robbed of his/hers weekend hunt. What if leases only allow children during youth weekend and they miss it.

How many 12 and under kids do you know that are not tied up with all the other extracurricular activites that have the time to practice and be able to pull a 40# bow to kill a whitetail. Not many! And I'm sorry but letting an inexperienced young hunter shoot at an animal with anything less is not ethical IMO. Too much left to chance. It is our duty to insure that the weapons we hunt with are sufficient enough to kill with.

Opening them up to hunting then bringing them into bowhunting gradually is the way to go. Not just say. If you want to hunt you have to wait.

Shoot, they could even make January 15 through February 15 a youth season. There are just too many alternatives for P&W that they don't even need to mess with October.

What good does it do for kids to hunt stressed whitetails where the majority of hunters have picked over most of the deer. Once again comes back to not putting the children first and foremost instead telling them we'll let you after all the grownups get to pick over the hunting.

More of the same "me" comes first.

[biggen]

What good does it do for kids to hunt stressed whitetails where the majority of hunters have picked over most of the deer.

So you are saying deer are stressed due to bowhunters picking over most deer?

[BearOmni]

Originally Posted by mesquitecountry

One weekend for youth hunting is a joke. How many times do you think a prior engagement comes up where that child is robbed of his/hers weekend hunt. What if leases only allow children during youth weekend and they miss it.

To be honest, I'm not sold on the need for ANY youth days/season. I think some people are looking at this like kids are going to just show up because its a youth day, like we do for opening day. These kids have to get to the woods somehow, who is bringing them?
I dont think there are many kids that hunt unless they are with their parents or family members. Therefore, they can hunt ALL SEASON long. if a parent wont let them hunt on any day of the season why should we think that parent would take time out to bring them on a youth weekend?

How many 12 and under kids do you know that are not tied up with all the other extracurricular activites that have the time to practice and be able to pull a 40# bow to kill a whitetail. Not many! And I'm sorry but letting an inexperienced young hunter shoot at an animal with anything less is not ethical IMO. Too much left to chance. It is our duty to insure that the weapons we hunt with are sufficient enough to kill with.

They dont have to be able to pull 40 pounds. If you agree with the rule or not it IS the rule that there is no min draw weight.
I do agree it is up to the parent to decide when a kid is ready to shoot at an animal. Bow or gun.

Opening them up to hunting then bringing them into bowhunting gradually is the way to go. Not just say. If you want to hunt you have to wait.

While this is your opinion, and I respect it, I dont have to agree with it.
Why not bring them into hunting with a bow as the weapon of choice, then introduce them to guns.
You would still be bringing them into hunting, and teaching all the same "outdoorsmanship" (is that a word??) skills to them.
Is there a specific reason you feel kids should hunt with guns before hunting with a bow?

What good does it do for kids to hunt stressed whitetails where the majority of hunters have picked over most of the deer. Once again comes back to not putting the children first and foremost instead telling them we'll let you after all the grownups get to pick over the hunting.

More of the same "me" comes first.

This would not be a problem if they were bow hunting.

[LostHawg]

If they are hunting with rifles, the stress factor is non existant. That is a weak argument at best. You set the kid in a walled in blind, zero his/her scope to 100 yards, set a feeder up at 80 yards and wait for the deer to come in to feed. Lay the stock on a rest and the kid snuggles up to the butt of the gun looking through 3 - 9X50 and squeezes off the round and the deer never even knows he/she was there.

The stress factor is not an issue for gun hunting. The deer can't outrun the bullet like it can an arrow.

Very weak...

My only concern would be the weather and that's an adaptable thing. It can be overcome. Part of learning to hunt.

And its a pretty sorry parent that's afraid to tell his/her child they need to wait till they're a little more mature.