Crossbows replacing archery in october?

[Bossbowman]

One of the individual that works for the crossbow manufacturers is spewing a bunch of info on another forum, I wonder if theres any validity to it?, the link to the whole thread is below the quote

I hate to burst your bubble, but the other bow companies are on board as well behind the scenes. Probably even your bow company. Why? Because they are now involved with manufacturing xbows since it's been a fast rising sport. They don't want to go broke so they needed to get on board as well. Also, the xbow is recognized as a great recruitement tool to lead shooters to buy traditional equipment. TPWD is the biggie behind this bill. Several Game Wardens shoot xbows, as do several members of the House of Reps and other legal people. Why? Because they are given the opportunity to shoot and learn about the xbow where as bow hunters don't take the time to teach those people how to shoot a vertical bow, they seem to just whine about sharing an archery season and listening to that over and over sure gets old. Most are not doers, just whiners. Nothing is gained if nothing more positive or lucrative is offered. Let me warn you about what will happen if this vocal group of bowhunters doesn't calm down and quit thinking it's exclusively their October season, because I've already heard the comments from House Reresentatives and Lobbyist. You know, the people that pass these regulations and laws. One, is a god friend of mine. What is being threatened is this: Since there are 500,000 xbow shooters, and 300,000 bow (Longbow/compound bow) they see more money coming in from the xbow shooters and the idea has been brought to the floor that if those 300,000 shooters want an exclusive season, they will make October xbow season, then run the general season, and when that season is finished. THEN in January, have those minority bow hunters their own exclusive season if that is really what their problem is with allowing xbows during archery season. It would be pushed back to after everyone else is done hunting. So, the moral to this story is... AND you are exactly right about the money. Isn't everything in the business world? Companies and associations do not run on emotions. They look at the bottom dollar. TPWD is doing the same thing thinking if they allow xbows in archery season, all those 500,000 shooters will have to purchase an archery tag. Money does talk, and that's just how it is. Emotion does not put money in the bank. If you want to fight this, then YOU need to figure out how the minority of bow hunters will bring in more money, and positive influences in, and good luck with that. Oh, and yes, I'm Prostaff for several companies in the industry, because I believe in those companies, and the products they sell. As well, they believe in me and what I have to teach about the products and companies, and what I do. I just love to hunt and I love to teach others how to get started and mentor the youth along their journey into the woods. I also love to help the elderly and handicapped have the opportunity to continue the tradition. My stance is anyone who wants to hunt, will hunt with me. Last deer season, I paid out of my own pocket $7,000.00 for the deer we let people harvest, who couldn't afford to hunt, to pay the bill due to ranch owner we guide and outfit for. I'll never leave ANYONE behind, and I don't give a s... what weapon we use, just as long as we have fun, are ethical, and are successful. I've never been prejudice to any weapon, or any person, and I would hope my fellow hunters would have the same atitude. Hunters helping hunters should be what it's all about. Not this pedy crap of ewe, You shoot a rifle, or you shoot a bow, or you stab hogs. If you don't like that method, don't do it! Don't whine about it. Mind your own business and go have fun. It's ALL good. Now, if they would try to take bow hunting away, you can bet your ass I'd be screaming the loudest and doing my part to back the bow hunters up just like any other hunters, and their chosen method of collection, because that's what the right thing to do is. It doesn't matter if it's something I like or not. We are all passionate lovers of this sport. There shouldn't be any peddy whining in this sport. We are all supposed to be the elite, respectful, better citizens of the world. Leave that other crap to the fine, upstanding citizens of the New Orleans Katrina victims group. Where's my money? I deserve that money! The gov't owes me that money! The law says I deserve that money-It's my legal right! Gets old, huh?

http://www.texashuntfish.com/flexiforums/thread.cfm?pid=26289&sid=30&fid=25

[Bossbowman]

Heres the most important part

Let me warn you about what will happen if this vocal group of bowhunters doesn't calm down and quit thinking it's exclusively their October season, because I've already heard the comments from House Reresentatives and Lobbyist. You know, the people that pass these regulations and laws. One, is a good friend of mine. What is being threatened is this: Since there are 500,000 xbow shooters, and 300,000 bow (Longbow/compound bow) they see more money coming in from the xbow shooters and the idea has been brought to the floor that if those 300,000 shooters want an exclusive season, they will make October xbow season, then run the general season, and when that season is finished. THEN in January, have those minority bow hunters their own exclusive season if that is really what their problem is with allowing xbows during archery season. It would be pushed back to after everyone else is done hunting. So, the moral to this story is... AND you are exactly right about the money. Isn't everything in the business world? Companies and associations do not run on emotions. They look at the bottom dollar. TPWD is doing the same thing thinking if they allow xbows in archery season, all those 500,000 shooters will have to purchase an archery tag. Money does talk, and that's just how it is.

[BUFF]

I'm pretty sure my bow company is not making X-bows. I was also doubt there are 500,000 folks wanting to hunt with X-bows.

[Trailboss]

I think we can safely assume that the same people that are hawking crossbows are the same people that are coming up with these figures. I seriously doubt there is much validity to their claims.

As for me - I'll be one of the last ones kicking and screaming about crossbows in archery season. With the exception of the physically handicapped - I don't feel they belong in archery season.

Trailboss

[Ronny]

I would like to know where they got those numbers :shock: I'm with you Trailboss

[grizz]

Sounds like a scare tactic to me. I will vote my conscience, not for any fear or threat. Rest assured, I am a motivated voter and will voice my displeasures with any rep.

Whine..Whine..Whine...

Lots of name calling against people who think we're inconsequential

[Trailboss]

You know - if push comes to shove - we could always shove back. If said bow manufacturers are so bent on making crossbows to get a share of that market, maybe we should let them have it and keep their other bows too.

There are plenty of good bow companies out there and some who are not building crossbows. Maybe we should take our business to them and let the other companies know why we're doing it.

They shouldn't be able to have their cake and eat it too!

Trailboss

[Hot4huntin]

All the misinformation, warnings and name calling kinda makes me want to have a long talk with that woman! :twisted:

[Linedawg]

Like others have said, "it sounds like scare tactics."

I'm with trailboss. If Bowtec is making crossbows (I don't think they are) I'll go to someone else. If it gets so bad that all the compound manufacturers are building crossbows I'll go back to trad. The loud mouthed crossbow folks can.......
You get the point.

[Trailboss]

It's not that I have anything against the bow manufacturers deciding to make crossbows too. More power to them. If they want a piece of that pie, they should have it.

But when they start lobbying to move crossbows into Archery Only season, then they're messin' with my pie and I don't like it!

Trailboss

[Ronny]

I think Bowtec makes a crossbow, but i dont think they are the ones pushing this thing.
I think a lot like Trailboss.
And its RAINING in Cumby again today :cry:

[grizz]

Can we get a list of these manufacturers pushing this agenda? Good Idea TB!

[Hot4huntin]

Parker makes crossbows! I sure hope they aren't pushing it. I will make sure before I purchase the new Contender. I like the way you think, TB!

[DZaidle]

My magazine is planning a pro-crossbow "blitz" between now and the next legislative session to allow crossbows in the archery season. There is no *real* reason to not do so.

I hope that dedicated bowhunters will realize this truth, and embrace the fact that crossbow hunters are the future of primitive weapon hunting. We are losing hunters at a depressing rate. Anything we can do to recruit more hunters is a plus for "us" and a minus for "them."

DZ

[Trailboss]

I'm gonna have to disagree with the statement that crossbow hunters are the future of primative weapons season. I just don't believe that.

Archery only season was established for archery equipment - not muzzle loaders and not crossbows. And no sir - crossbows are NOT archery equipment. Not by definition - not by fact. They just are not! Archery Only season has gotten along quite well without crossbows being allowed and we don't need them now. Not allowing crossbows in archery season is not the reason for declining numbers of hunters. The urbanization of our society is to blame for that. Not allowing crossbow hunters in archery season is not preventing anyone that wants to hunt with a crossbow from doing it. They can do it now under current provisions.

I am not anit-crossbow as I've said many times. I'm not opposed to anyone using a crossbow to hunt. I'm not even opposed to someone using a crossbow in archery season if disabilities prevent them from using more conventional gear.

I just don't see the need for including crossbows in archery season when they are already allowed in the general season and are already allowed in archery season for people with disabilities.

You folks can paint this picture as pretty as you want, but the truth is - this is being pushed by the crossbow manufacturers for one reason only - dollars! You can claim to have lofty ambitions to be the saving grace of archery - but the truth is, you're doing this for money - plain, simple, and the truth! You can put lipstick on a pig but it only makes it a prettier pig. It's still a pig!

Trailboss

[Ronny]

Very well said TB :D

[tinman]

My magazine is planning a pro-crossbow "blitz"...
Don, thanks for being honest enough to declare your intentions. I hope you understand that I will no longer support Texas Fish & Game in any way because of your statement above. I will not be buying the annual Lakes issue this year or any regular issue of your magazine.

Why don't you x-bow people do something constructive and lobby for your own season and quit starting this same fight over and over again. You are the ones trying to divide hunters by forcing everyone to accept what you want. We are and will continue to preserve the archery season because that's what our members want.

Ronny, call me tomorrow for the answer to your question about Bowtech and this effort...you probably won't like it.

[Bossbowman]

My magazine is planning a pro-crossbow "blitz" between now and the next legislative session to allow crossbows in the archery season. There is no *real* reason to not do so.

I hope that dedicated bowhunters will realize this truth, and embrace the fact that crossbow hunters are the future of primitive weapon hunting. We are losing hunters at a depressing rate. Anything we can do to recruit more hunters is a plus for "us" and a minus for "them."

I hope you are wrong about this but you might not be, I'm sure tradtional archers felt the same way when the compound bow started to take off. Just remember as our so call primitive weapons get more effective/efficient there is less an less reason to have a archery or primitive weapons season.

[Bossbowman]

If Bowtec is making crossbows (I don't think they are) I'll go to someone else.

You better buy another bow, they make quite possibly the most technologically advanced crossbow on the marked (I believe its close to 500 fps), its called the stryker, but they don't endorse it with the bowtech brand. Here a link to the site http://www.strykerxbow.com/faq.php

[grizz]

My magazine is planning a pro-crossbow "blitz"...
Don, thanks for being honest enough to declare your intentions. I hope you understand that I will no longer support Texas Fish & Game in any way because of your statement above. I will not be buying the annual Lakes issue this year or any regular issue of your magazine.


Seems we have an enemy not an ally in Texas Fish & Game . I don't have a clue as to how it functions (state or private org) but if state, there has to be funding streams and revenue allocations; If private, the sponsors (other than Xbow manufacturers) need to answer for its anti bowhunting stance. ALL the sponsors need to be contacted.

Tinman...you seem to know. Is there an Organization list with officers and/ sponsors list out there? Same with the Xbow manufactureres. What other product names/brands are associated with the XBow. Bowling balls, Boat Equip, golf..etc all.

Given the hostile nature of the above threat, I vote for a product boycott of ALL product lines being a sponsor of the Mag and the X-Bows.

300,000 bowhunters families boycotting these lines may get someone to back off.


I'll run down ALL the product lines and post a list if someone can give me the target manufacturer who is cramming this down out throats!!

[grizz]

As for Bray's strategies to procure advertising, when Fish & Game picked up
competitor Texas Fisherman it also picked up the magazine's advertising,
including a handful of non-endemic advertisers such as Toyota Trucks, Chevy
Suburban and Budweiser. Fish & Game's 1991 ad page total was 568.34, up 166
percent from 1990, says Bray

Roy Neves is the Publisher here in Houston. I'm going to start with him and the above advertisors to start. This is dated so I''ll look for more current data. Neves is the only officer listed so its NOT a big enterprise.

1745 GREENS RD
HOUSTON, TX 77032-1119

Status: IN GOOD STANDING NOT FOR DISSOLUTION OR WITHDRAWAL through November 15, 2007
Registered Agent: ROY NEVES
2350 NORTH BELT EAST, SUITE 240
HOUSTON, TX 77032
Registered Agent Resignation Date:
State of Incorporation: NV
File Number: 0702440523
Charter/COA Date: March 7, 1997
Charter/COA Type: COA
Taxpayer Number: 30119390216

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Texans reel 'em in - Texas Fish & Game periodical - Magazine Strategies
Folio: The Magazine for Magazine Management, Sept 1, 1992 by Heidi Dawley
Texas Fish & Game bagged the competition; now it's stalking national
advertisers.
Back in 1985 when newspaperman Bill Bray decided to start Texas Fish & Game, he
didn't know much about the magazine business.
Some six years later, though, Bray, who is chairman of Highland Publishing Co.
Inc., is putting out profitable issues and, with a paid circulation of more than
100,800, his magazine ranks as the third largest regional in Texas, according to
Audit Bureau of Circulations' (ABC) December 31, 1991, figures.
To date the key strategy has been one of low-cost circulation budding and
retention. However, with the 1991 acquisition of his major competitor,
18-year-old Texas Fisherman, Bray has shifted his focus to securing a larger
pool of advertisers.
Related Results: roy neves houston texas
The winners and the losers of
2002 - Political Consultant... More
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Success with compiled lists
After starting in Marble Falls, Texas, with an ABC-audited circulation of 9,439
in July 1985, Texas Fish & Game now weighs in as the biggest circulation gainer
of all city, state and regional magazines audited by ABC for the last five
years, with an increase of 149.2 percent, according to "Capell's Circulation
Report."
Although Bray relinquished day-today control of the magazine to president and
long-time employee Roy Neves in June, the strategy will remain the same.
To build circulation, Bray has relied heavily on direct-mail drops with lists
made up of Texas fishing- and hunting-license holders, licensed boat owners,
outdoor catalog recipients and outdoor magazine subscribers. The response rate
has been high.
Advertisement
The most recent drop of 900,000 came in at a gross rate of 2.9 percent, the paid
rate at 2.3 percent, reports Bray. The December 1990 drop had a gross response
rate of 2.8 percent and a paid rate of 2.4 percent. Dan Capell, editor of
"Capell's Circulation Report" and president of Compu-Name, says: "To get a 2.8
percent gross response with a 2.4 percent pay up is fantastic. That's an 85
percent pay-up rate. Most are in the 50 to 60 percent pay-up range."
While many compiled lists (those composed of unproven buyers) don't yield
competitive results, Bray has had success with the Texas hunting and fishing
licenses and the Texas boat-licenses lists, with response rates averaging
between 2.2 and 2.5 percent. Again Capell is impressed: "If they did 1 percent,
they'd be doing pretty well." And the price is right, Bray says, at just $5 per
1,000 names, compared to $75 and up per 1,000 for a list from other magazines.
"We lose on procurement, when the dust settles, about $3.05 per [new]
subscriber," says Bray in his slow West Texas drawl. Fulfillment cost is $8 to
$9, making the cost of a new subscriber $11 to $12.
In addition to the fact that there are some four million hunters and fishers in
Texas, Bray has another reason to believe that there is still plenty of untapped
potential out there. "Normally, as a title grows in a finite universe, your cost
of acquisition starts going up on you," he says. For Texas Fish & Game,
subscription-acquisition costs are dropping. (The subscription price is $15 per
year.)
Building up to the current renewal rate of 62 percent, including conversions,
took some doing, says Bray, who admits that it was a disconcerting eye-opener
when his renewal rate came in at 43 percent in 1986.
To boost renewals, the staff scrambled to create a premium that would be
complementary to the magazine. They came up with two annuals, a guide to fishing
in Texas called Texas Lakes and Bays and one for hunting called Texas Deer
Hunting. The premiums, says Bray, carry advertising and are used both to "get
folks to renew and to encourage folks on the circulation drops to subscribe and
pay in advance." The most successful premium, Texas Lakes and Bays, is now sold
as a stand-alone publication on newsstands for $3.95. Last year, some 14,000
copies were sold at a sell-through rate of 64 percent, says Bray.
Hunting bigger advertisers
Happy as Bray is with his renewal rate, he still falls short of regional ad-page
giant Florida Sportsman, which has a 75 percent renewal rate, and for eight
years has carried more ad pages than any other major outdoors book, national or
otherwise, according to Bob Mitchell, marketing director for Florida Sportsman.
He says that Florida Sportsman, whose circulation sits at 100,109 for six months
ended December 31, 1991, does not use any premiums or price-cutting offers in
its sub efforts.
As for Bray's strategies to procure advertising, when Fish & Game picked up
competitor Texas Fisherman it also picked up the magazine's advertising,
including a handful of non-endemic advertisers such as Toyota Trucks, Chevy
Suburban and Budweiser. Fish & Game's 1991 ad page total was 568.34, up 166
percent from 1990, says Bray.
Bray hopes to compete with other regional magazines like D, Houston Metropolitan
and Texas Monthly for this national advertising. And he hopes that, with a 97
percent male readership, his cost-effective male CPM will help.
Despite Bray's claim that regional publications are taking advertising from
national publications, Field & Stream and Outdoor Life's advertising general
manager, Robert C. Hanna, says, "A national advertiser is generally looking for
national media, and we feel very little competition from the many, many local or
regional magazines out there."






[/i]

[Bossbowman]

Seems we have an enemy not an ally in Texas Fish & Game . I don't have a clue as to how it functions (state or private org) but if state, there has to be funding streams and revenue allocations; If private, the sponsors (other than Xbow manufacturers) need to answer for its anti bowhunting stance. ALL the sponsors need to be contacted.

Tinman...you seem to know. Is there an Organization list with officers and/ sponsors list out there? Same with the Xbow manufactureres. What other product names/brands are associated with the XBow. Bowling balls, Boat Equip, golf..etc all.

Given the hostile nature of the above threat, I vote for a product boycott of ALL product lines being a sponsor of the Mag and the X-Bows.

300,000 bowhunters families boycotting these lines may get someone to back off.


I'll run down ALL the product lines and post a list if someone can give me the target manufacturer who is cramming this down out throats!!

My guess it would be ten point crossbow technologies, a company out of ohio. I have never heard of them until I received this years cabelas fall magazine, I think they're in the bass pro one too. In the past the crossbow section of the magazine was maybe a few pages always a few horton or barnett xbows, this year its three or fours times the size, most of them being ten point xbows. They have a xbow that cost $2000, how crazy is that.

[Ronny]

I think the one Bowtec builds cost about $1600

[grizz]

To: ___________________, Governing Officer

I am contemplating joining an organized boycott effort against your products and services. This boycott call is initiated by a group of Texas Sportsman opposed to the introduction of modern weaponry into the Archery Only Sporting Season. Your sponsorship and/or advertising dollars in support of the Texas Fish and Game Magazine published by Highland Publishing Co. is the reason for your inclusion in this boycott.

A preponderance of Texas archery enthusiasts are opposed to the introduction of the crossbow into the early archery only season. A modern crossbow is a shoulder fired, telescopic scoped weapon capable of generating projectile speeds approaching that of a shotgun firing rifled slugs/bullets. We, the traditional archers, believe the current laws that allow these weapons during the general season should remain unchanged.

A statement written on a traditional archery blog, by a person who claims to be in the employ of the aforementioned magazine, that TF&G is dedicating its resources to push an alteration of current sporting laws in favor of the crossbows. It is theorized that the motivation behind this endeavor is either a personal opinion of a single employee or an attempt to gain advertising revenue from crossbow manufacturers with a vested interest in pushing this law change.

I ask that you use your influence as a sponsor or advertiser to maintain the Status Quo and have the Archery Only Season remain just that, devoid of modern weaponry. Should the Magazine pursue this course of action, the 300,000 Archery Only licensed Texas traditional sportsman will unite and boycott the magazine and those products advertised therein.

Please communicate your response to my request.


Sincerely,



Cc: ROY NEVES, President, Texas Fish and Game, LLC
2350 NORTH BELT EAST, SUITE 240
HOUSTON, TX 77032


I am getting addresses and emails of the CEO's of the advertisors and sponsors. I will post here for any who wish to voice their view.

Make sure to copy Roy Neves on each letter. I will look for a email Addy. He is in Real Estate and a Consultant. He should have a webpage

[Tomme]

I don't really care if a bow company makes crossbows. I do care if for monetary gain they try to change an archery only season to allow crossbows.

I too dispute the numbers in the early post of 500,000 to 300,000 crossbow hunters. I'd like to know that that's based on.

Finally I am getting so sick of people calling me names because I object to someone wanting to take away the archery season. I don't care what you hunt with in the general season. I also don't care if you lobby for a special season of your own, but it really puts irritates me to be continually charged with not supporting other hunters just because I oppose crossbows in the Texas Special archery season. The folks pushing crossbows are the greatest divisive force in the hunting community.

Finally we are losing hunters every day not because crossbows aren't allowed in an extra season. It's due to habitat destruction and the fact that hunting grows more and more expensive every year. I can remember the $300 family lease. Today, with fewer places to hunt and the switch to QDM most ranches will only allow the one hunter, with a very limited harvest. It's hard to buy 4 spots at $2,500 a year. Crossbows will not solve this problem and the divisive push by crossbow manufacturers.

[tinman]

In relation to Bowtech, they also make these...

http://www.airowgun.com/

Kinda cool for a paintball/air-rifle toy...but what do think their R&D teams might come up with in the future? How could this product development eventually affect the archery season? They're already hunting small game with one in a video on the pellet side of the product website. Is this archery, Don?

I don't want to bash Bowtech but I think it's time for all of us to look at where our manufacturer stands on this issue before we purchase from them. As trailboss stated, it's one thing build a x-bow and go after your share of this "market". More power to you and the American Way. But it's another thing altogether to step on the toes of the hunters that brought you to the dance.

Because they are given the opportunity to shoot and learn about the xbow where as bow hunters don't take the time to teach those people how to shoot a vertical bow, they seem to just whine about sharing an archery season and listening to that over and over sure gets old. Most are not doers, just whiners.
The most upsetting thing to me is that these people spend so much time bashing us that they don't even notice what we do for bowhunting and bowhunter education here in the State of Texas....these lies they continue to use in order to help push this agenda show their true ignorance. We need to take steps to insure these are exposed as false and promote the positive impact bowhunters make here in Texas. TPWD should know this, as they see us every year at many events but the Senators and House Reps need to know what we do as a group and individually to promote bowhunting on a daily basis.

Meanwhile, the only people they're promoting the crossbow to are legislaters that can/will help their cause. How many x-bow shoots are there each weekend in Texas? How many youth shoots have they hosted this year? I'd bet that Bob Wright alone spends more time positively promoting bowhunting and impacting the youth of Texas than these people do collectively promoting anything to the public.

Don Zaidle, if you're still out there...would you please over-articulate the reason why you personally (and Texas Fish & Game as your business) won't be striving for a separate season for x-bows and other primitive weapons? I have told you that the LSBA and most bowhunters probably wouldn't be opposed to this arrangement, if it helped to preserve the future of the archery season and allowed for the continued promotion of traditional forms of bowhunting through said season. Why do you guys want to prove us wrong so bad that you're going State to State with this fight OVER AND OVER and causing discord between hunters? Then you call us names, lie about us and even go so far as to blame us for the non-harmonic tones? Why?

You want to make difference in this fight? Lead your x-bow support efforts down a more righteous path. A path with little to no resistance. Lead your people toward your goals in a manner that won't compromise or jeopardize something as dear to so many hunters as the Archery Weapons seasons across North America. Quit causing these problems within the hunting communities across North America and start solving them.

LSBA - Preserving and Promoting bowhunting in the State of Texas since 1974.

[grizz]

Cc: ROY NEVES, President, Texas Fish and Game, LLC
2350 NORTH BELT EAST, SUITE 240
HOUSTON, TX 77032
Make sure to copy Roy Neves on each letter. I will look for a email Addy. He is in Real Estate and a Consultant. He should have a webpage

OK, here we go....aneves@fishgame.com is the wife. Email her to get to Roy if you wish to voice your opinion on Mr. D Zaidle's contributions to harmonious archery discussion on this forum. My letter above may be of interest.

Publisher, Roy Neves
Vice President/ Advertising Director, Ardia Neves
1745 Greens Rd.
Houston, Texas 77032
Phone: 281/227-3001

[Tomme]

Griz thanks for coming up with the addies.

I would suggest one small change in your original letter. Instead of "We the traditional archer..." , I think it should be changed to either "We the bowhunters ... or "We the archers....". I know that it's a small semantics thing, but the opposition to crossbows in the archery season comes from the majority of people who believe that a key part of the definition of bowhunting is that the bow has to be hand held and hand drawn, and that definition includes the majority of compound shooters as well as traditional shooters. Crossbow manufactureres keep trying to tag us (bowhunters) with the label of elitist who deny people an opportunity to hunt. With a compound with modern let offs, anyone can learn to bowhunt.

I will write with hopes of doing good, but it's probably about the money, more than the sport. It's really sad that the bottom line for many magazines is not what is best for hunting, but rather how many more ads they can sell to crossbow manufacturers.

[grizz]

THX will amend the document. I have not seen a reply to my email yet. I'll be watching the Mag to see if the threat comes to fruition. If it does, I'll post the letter and TFG sponsors addy's on all the internet Bowhunting forums so we can all give our opinions to those sponsoring this effort. I think they'd loose more sponsors than any revenue gained by the Xbow manufacturers. But, they may just risk that and call my bluff. I'm NOT bluffing as I've already shown by posting thier contact info. So Far I've kept it to this site.

[Stew1tx]

I think all of you on the EC know how I feel about Don and his rudimentary comments about archery while trying to maintain that he is as much of a die hard bowhunter as the next addict. I did not even respond to his lambasting of us last time because I was not going to fall into his trap. Mr. Zaidle, anytime you take someone's words of fact, ie our surveys, and tell them they are not worth spit or the paper they are printed on the tell them that you can tell them why, you better watch out for your numbers to change. I will be real selective how I support your publication and will probably tell the story any time someone comes up to me with your magazine or asks about it. If you want to be a big boy, present yourself as such.

There will not be any crossbow bill action until the next session at which time the house can start over or forget about it. I can tell you the TPWD is not the reason for this bill, nor are they for or against it. They will maintain neutral. Too many misreprested facts revolve around it for one. Speeds the same, less or equal KE, only as accurate as a compound/traditional bow with a 30yd range blah blah blah. These things, most of them shoot harder, faster and much more accurate than anyone with the same amount of time behind a bow would be able to achieve.

[Tomme]

Thanks Griz.

[tinman]

Mr. Neves took my call yesterday afternoon and while he has assured me that his magazine will not be officially pushing this agenda in the Senate/House, it does seem that Don will be doing his best to promote this cause to the outdoor public through his own editorials and the articles which he accepts for publication in Texas Fish & Game.

[LostHawg]

Zaidle, you seem to be more hostile about this than actually wanting to affect responsible dialogue. So far, your tactics aren't near swaying me from agreeing with Trailboss or Tinman.

For the record? I'm the one that's about hunting period; not bowhunting, not rifle hunting, not crossbow hunting. For me the hunt comes first and then the tool. I agree if a person wants to use a crossbow, then let them use a crossbow. BUT, as has been pointed out over and over again there are already provisions in place for people to do so. If you want a season set aside for crossbows or primitive as you want to call it, then petition TPW for a seperate timeslot. Don't try to take the archery season away from us or encroach upon it.

See, I LOVE to hunt with my rifle. Possibly as much as I do with my longbow, but I'm not for nor have I been for allowing the youth to use rifles during the archery season. I'd actually like to see the youth season done away with. I think hunting should be hunting nondepentent upon age. If a father or mother will not take their child out during the general season they don't diserve the youth season. THAT's my position. If it disagrees with others so be it. I'm not trying to force my position down their throats with scare tactics or threats. I'm allowing the choice of the majority without trying to buy out the powers that be. :roll:

[Bossbowman]

I'm glad there is forum in which this topic can be discussed without it being deleted, I guarantee you this would have been pulled within minutes on texasbowhunter.com, and I don't understand why. I might just post a link over there for anyone who also wants to put there two cents in and see if it doesn't get axed.

[grizz]

Mr. Neves took my call yesterday ..it does seem that Don will be doing his best to promote this cause to the outdoor public through his own editorials and the articles which he accepts for publication in Texas Fish & Game.

So he's saying he has NO editorial control with his own Mag? I hope Zaidle is an investor that has money invested in the mag.

[grizz]

I'm glad there is forum in which this topic can be discussed without it being deleted, I guarantee you this would have been pulled within minutes on texasbowhunter.com, and I don't understand why. I might just post a link over there for anyone who also wants to put there two cents in and see if it doesn't get axed.

You noticed that too..I only post in the public area where I met some good people. You going to the meet in Cleburne next Saturday?

[LostHawg]

I think this is an appropriate place for this discussion. Providing it remains civil.

[Bullrdr82]

I really do not understand why everyone is getting in an uproar trying to get this passed. Things have been working well since the "Archery Only" season was passed. I am a strong believer in the theory of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

I am with Tracy on the his statement. I am about HUNTING. I do not care what form of hunting it is, be it rifle, shotgun, bow, or knife.... I JUST LOVE TO HUNT. I still go on a lot of hunts that are rifle only. I am not going to pass up an oppertunity to be in the outdoors only because they will not let me hunt with my bow.

On the subject of threads getting closed. I can not speak for any of the other mods, but as long as this discussion stays civil then I do not see any problems with letting people speak their mind. I will say that the moment this discussion begins to go down hill, then it will be locked.

I would like to say that LSBA is trying to get the website to be as informative as possible, so a little debate is always good. I do not want to get into a situation where a new member gets on and all they see is fighting and bickering. I feel this is a turn-off to what we, as an organization, are trying to accomplish.

So carry on with the discussion....

[Bossbowman]

You noticed that too..I only post in the public area where I met some good people. You going to the meet in Cleburne next Saturday?
Nope we have a work weekend at the new deerlease.

[Pick A Spot]

I'm glad there is forum in which this topic can be discussed without it being deleted, I guarantee you this would have been pulled within minutes on texasbowhunter.com, and I don't understand why. I might just post a link over there for anyone who also wants to put there two cents in and see if it doesn't get axed.

I've been a long time member of the "other" forum and it no doubt has/had some good folks that contributed enjoyable dialog over the years but I've lost any interest with it due to the above mentioned problem. The site is so much different then it was when it first started. My opinion (and it's nothing more) is that the site drifted away from it's roots. It failed to organize the board in a manner that prevented post about a guys wife leaving him next to a post about tuning a bow. I would rather read about doctor deer than doctor Phil.

I log on to read, discuss, learn and enjoy bowhunting related matters. Over a year ago I contacted Tinman via email & PM about the initial push to get crossbows into the archery season. I also posted on the other board with the intention to generate interest in countering the crossbow effort. I was basically electronically stoned to death and the primary rock thrower was a moderator. I gave up.

I'm glad to see THIS site improve so much. Someone has done a great job. I rarely post anymore but enjoy checking in and catching up from time to time. Keep up the fight against the crossbow manufactures and don't fall for that "your just an elitist" or "your not united" BS.

[Chunky]

This is a year old thread right??????

[LostHawg]

Yessir! ;)

[Pick A Spot]

Sorry gents, I didn't notice the date. For some reason it was one of the post on page 2 when I logged in a few days ago. I assume it's no longer relevant.

[NDNRoger]

That's ok! No harm no foul.

[DoubleJ]

It just serves as a refresher for things to come. We will see this issue again and with more energy than the last time. That is why it is so important that we have a strong/united LSBA. Recruit new members now to build our strength. It should be made clear that the LSBA IS NOT anti-crossbow. We encourage everyone to get out and hunt with their choice of methods. We simply believe the current rules are adequate. The elimination of the minimum draw weight has effectively opened the archery season literally to anyone. There should be no more reason to intrude upon the archery season with any other type of hunting equipment.

[LostHawg]

They're working on Ohio right now. There's a big discussion on it on the Ohio forum of the Bowsite.

OBA Crossbow discussion (http://forums.bowsite.com/tf/regional/thread.cfm?threadid=156056&MESSAGES=102&state=OH)

[Huntinfool]

Years ago a group of individuals got together and petitioned TPWD for an archery only season. It was granted and it is still here today. Why do the X-bow people or manufactures feel that they should get this season and we the archers should move to another set of dates? Why don't they petition for their own dates?

I like the archery only season and do not want to share it with crossbows, except for in the case of a handicap. That said why not have the archery only season stay the same and at the end of the regular season have an archery and crossbow only season? Seems this would benefit everyone. I know this is an older thread, however we are faced with this challenge every year around this time. I think the faster we get this resolved the faster we can just get on getting on.

[Bossbowman]

I've been a long time member of the "other" forum and it no doubt has/had some good folks that contributed enjoyable dialog over the years but I've lost any interest with it due to the above mentioned problem. The site is so much different then it was when it first started. My opinion (and it's nothing more) is that the site drifted away from it's roots. It failed to organize the board in a manner that prevented post about a guys wife leaving him next to a post about tuning a bow. I would rather read about doctor deer than doctor Phil.

I log on to read, discuss, learn and enjoy bowhunting related matters. Over a year ago I contacted Tinman via email & PM about the initial push to get crossbows into the archery season. I also posted on the other board with the intention to generate interest in countering the crossbow effort. I was basically electronically stoned to death and the primary rock thrower was a moderator. I gave up.

I'm glad to see THIS site improve so much. Someone has done a great job. I rarely post anymore but enjoy checking in and catching up from time to time. Keep up the fight against the crossbow manufactures and don't fall for that "your just an elitist" or "your not united" BS.

I don't post over there anymore either, everyone needs to be prepared, the day is coming and we need to be ready for this fight. This is about nothing more than $$$ for the Xbow companies, for crying out loud you can use a draw-lok during october legally, this is something too I would like to see the LSBA petition to ban.

[tinman]

I agree, we cannot ignore this issue...it will be back. I wish we had the time and manpower to compete with the force the x-bow manufacturers put into their effort each year. We need the NBEF/BRC/IBO/P&Y to produce a positive video for all the State Bowhunting Org's to use to combat their annual $$$$ spent by the x-bow manufacturers.

I know, Trey...there are no x-bow lobbyist registered in Austin.

I encourage you LSBA members (who no longer post on the biggest bowhunting site in Texas) to stay involved there. Great group of people there and a very large group of dedicated bowhunters. Though we may not always agree with everyone, we're all brothers of the bow and we should represent the LSBA to the best of our abilities where ever bowhunters gather...on this topic, while I won't censor my feelings, I will try to better represent in the future.

[2050z]

I agree, we cannot ignore this issue...it will be back. I wish we had the time and manpower to compete with the force the x-bow manufacturers put into their effort each year. We need the NBEF/BRC/IBO/P&Y to produce a positive video for all the State Bowhunting Org's to use to combat their annual $$$$ spent by the x-bow manufacturers.

I know, Trey...there are no x-bow lobbyist registered in Austin.

I encourage you LSBA members (who no longer post on the biggest bowhunting site in Texas) to stay involved there. Great group of people there and a very large group of dedicated bowhunters. Though we may not always agree with everyone, we're all brothers of the bow and we should represent the LSBA to the best of our abilities where ever bowhunters gather...on this topic, while I won't censor my feelings, I will try to better represent in the future.


NBEF has a safety course for X bows. Their goal is to promote safey with all equipment.

[LostHawg]

I encourage you LSBA members (who no longer post on the biggest bowhunting site in Texas) to stay involved there. Great group of people there and a very large group of dedicated bowhunters. Though we may not always agree with everyone, we're all brothers of the bow and we should represent the LSBA to the best of our abilities where ever bowhunters gather...on this topic, while I won't censor my feelings, I will try to better represent in the future.

I agree with Joey here. It may tend to get cliquish over there, but that's just a select few. There are a couple thousand others or more who are NOT in that clique.

Everytime I start to badmouth the second biggest traditional site, I have to remind myself of this. I forget sometimes though... :spank: Prolly why I'm in banned camp. :whistle:

[traildust]

Wow..There are more x-bow hunters than bow hunters....Funny, I can honestly say I personally dont know a single X-bow hunter...Wonder where they came up with those numbers? I'm calling BS.....Fear Tactic

[Pick A Spot]

[QUOTE=LostHawg;13823]I agree with Joey here. It may tend to get cliquish over there, but that's just a select few. There are a couple thousand others or more who are NOT in that clique.

I agree with that. The good guys far out weigh the bad.

[bustedassranch]

I agree with Joey here. It may tend to get cliquish over there, but that's just a select few. There are a couple thousand others or more who are NOT in that clique.

Everytime I start to badmouth the second biggest traditional site, I have to remind myself of this. I forget sometimes though... :spank: Prolly why I'm in banned camp. :whistle:

I have seen a glimpse of a clique here..I think it will happen anywhere you have so many people spending that much time together (work, church, wherever)
As for the original topic. I have voiced my opinion on that till I was blue in the face & will prepare myself to do it again!

[Huntinfool]

I've been talking to a friend that just moved from Alabama, he said that they went through the same problems there. Finally the cross bows were allowed during the archery season. Crossbow sales went through the roof. The next year they were flooded with used crossbows as most hunters gave up on it.

He did suggest that if we as the united front of bowhunting in Texas (LSBA) don't get together and do something that this will happen. Possibly one of the best things we can do is to allow crossbows during the archery only season. I know, I know...:banned: But hear me out. TPWD's last voting session this was not in effect because of one vote. Which means that it is more than likely going to happen. So why don't we allow the crossbows, but put an age restriction on them, say anyone over 60 years old. That way we give them essentially what they want with out losing. I know that this is a drastic measure, but it maight be the only way to keep them from the season, in big numbers. This is just a thought, and I am in no way saying that I want them in our season, but it seems that TPWD is more than likely going to allow them (the draw loc is legal now and we fought it and lost) so why not at least have some sort of effect on the legislation that will impact the future.

I know...I'm off to banned camp.

[LostHawg]

Nope, you're not off to banned camp. Your opinion is welcome and appreciated.

Actually, crossbows ARE already allowed in archery season with conditions. Those with upper limb disabilities can use them. If one thinks it takes a crossbow for them to enjoy the archery season, they should see a doctor and get a letter like the law says. Now, Draw-Locs, on the other hand, are unrestricted.

[DoubleJ]

The issue was not being considered last time by TPW but by our legislature. The vote was a single vote short to get it out of committee in the Senate.

Since there is no longer a minimum draw weight for archery equipment what would be the excuse to allow crossbows in the archery only season?

[Huntinfool]

Jack I hadn't even thought about that. You're right. I forgot that they were doing away with the minimum draw weight. With that gone there shouldn't be any reason for them to want or need x bows in the archery only season.