I heard a GW talking the other day....................

[gmherps]

and from what he said is that more counties will be adopting the antler restriction policy next deer season. For example, Bell Co will now be a 2 buck county, and the buck must be @ least 13" wide. Just what I heard fellas.

I personally think this is great. What y'all? :D

[LostHawg]

I don't like antler restrictions. This implies that we are only out hunting for the sake of a big rack of horns.

The fact remains that I, for one, hunt for the meat it provides. Besides, we have areas out here that inbreeding or whatever have caused deformities in racks. 5 and 6 year old bucks sporting 12" and less 6 pt head gear, spikes and off balanced racks.

The size of the rack is nothing more than "Trophy" status and there should be more to killing these animals than that.

So, make that 1 vote in opposition.

[Bossbowman]

Opposition against TPWD antler restrictions shows ignorance toward why they are making these regulations. These restrictions are to create a better age class not so there will be bigger racked bucks. The fact is we in texas are killing too many young bucks (3.5 years and younger) and not taking out enough does every year, this mentallity of everyone wants to shoot a buck must change or the buck doe ratio will get more and more lopsided. There need to be mature bucks for the rutting activity to occur as it should and create a shorter fawning season rather than a longer one which is bad. If you don't believe antler restrictions massively improve the health of a deer herd call the wildlife biologists at richland creek WMA, they have had 15 inch antler restrictions in place since 2000.

[DoubleJ]

If you want meat shoot does. Antler restrictions won't matter then and they're better eatin'. I own land in Colorado County which was one of the first counties to have the antler restrictions. It has been an overwhelming success there. The quality of the herd has improved dramatically.

[LostHawg]

Well, just paint me ignorant. :roll:

[bowjunkie]

Both sides are entitled to opinions, but lets keep it clean :D


My initial reaction was the same as Losthawgs and I did some digging before my view changed.

I now like the program as in the counties that have implemented it, the 'health' of the herd has improved. What was said above is valid; the biologists made the reccomendations based on the age structure of the herd and really nothing more then that. Sure, by nature of the program the bucks are getting bigger and better, but in nature the strong survive and in turn they pass on those genetics for a win win in future fawn crops benefitting both the buck and doe fawns. With the previous regs (as stated before) the bucks weren't getting mature (shoot anything with horns mentality) and it was leading to an explosion of does, an unhealthy balance and unhealthy herd due to inferior natural genetics and inbreeding.

If something wasn't done, then the decline of healthy mature bucks would/has lead/led to a decline of the overall deer population. As like any critter in nature, I've seen does run off young or inferior bucks while in estrus. There is a reason for a bucks rack; it not only aids them in a fight but it has been shown that given a choice, a doe will breed with the more agressive buck or will allow a buck with a bigger rack to breed her over a spike or basket buck.

I hope that some of the counties I hunt adopt the regs and that they even carry it over to the National Forest properties I hunt as well for a few years at least. And I'm strictly a 'meat hunter' as well.

[LostHawg]

I've stated my case several times before. And yes, I don't appreciate being called ignorant by someone who doesn't know my background.

You may continue with this conversation now.

[rbridges00]

Opposition against TPWD antler restrictions shows ignorance toward why they are making these regulations. These restrictions are to create a better age class not so there will be bigger racked bucks. The fact is we in texas are killing too many young bucks (3.5 years and younger) and not taking out enough does every year, this mentallity of everyone wants to shoot a buck must change or the buck doe ratio will get more and more lopsided. There need to be mature bucks for the rutting activity to occur as it should and create a shorter fawning season rather than a longer one which is bad. If you don't believe antler restrictions massively improve the health of a deer herd call the wildlife biologists at richland creek WMA, they have had 15 inch antler restrictions in place since 2000.

I'm mixed on the issue. I'm in agreement with LostHawg in that there are older bucks who will never meet the antler restriction, so it shouldn't be on antlers only and have some stipulation for age.

Now if the "true" reason is to encourage us to harvest more does, then why don't they allow for harvesting does or buck?

I have to agree that TPWD's main goal is $$$ and if they can advertise more "trophy" bucks, then they can charge more for licenses both resident and non-resident.

My .02 cents worth.

[Bossbowman]

There will be some mature buck that won't have a 13 inch spread but within a few years all those will eventually die off, and there will be fewer of these 'exception to the rule bucks' because you are allowed to shoot spikes as well in the antler restriction counties. The vast majority of those 'exection the rule bucks' were spikes as 1.5 year olds and the antler restriction rules help solve this problem.

[rbridges00]

Again, I'm mixed. I still think there will be some narrow racked mature bucks breeding that will produce narrow racked off spring. This is a genetic trait that will continue to be passed on.

Not saying restrictions are bad, I just don't totally agree with motive.

[MILNRICK]

As DoubleJ said, antler restrictions work, and work well. I very seriously doubt that there

[BUFF]

As a land owner I look at it differently than a lot of folks. I agree whole heartedly with Losthawg that it gives the impression that we only hunt for horns ( just like PETA is telling everyone). My biggest heart burn is now Big Brother has stepped into my bedroom and is telling me how to manage deer on land I own and pay the taxes on. The state doesn't pay for the food plots, year round feeding program or the hours of labor to maintain my little place. If I want to let my grandson shoot a deer , That I probably have several hundred dollars invested in it is none of their darn business. I think it is just a new tax as they will no doubt fine lots of folks for shooting 12" deer.

[Bossbowman]

I know it gonna be difficult to convince the older hunters set in there ways about hunting but these restrictions are no different than the 14 inch length limit on bass. I fish a couple lakes (aquilla, fairfield) that have an 18 inch limit on largemouth, and guess what the fish populations are bigger and healthier. Its a culture change TPWD is trying to make with the next generation of outdoorsmen and I commend them on it.

[LostHawg]

I feel the same way about the slot limit on bass. And I agree with Buff almost to the letter.

[Bossbowman]

"My biggest heart burn is now Big Brother has stepped into my bedroom and is telling me how to manage deer on land I own and pay the taxes on. If I want to let my grandson shoot a deer , That I probably have several hundred dollars invested in it is none of their darn business."

By law you don't own the deer, the state of Texas does, I'm sure you know that but thats just the way it is.

[Tomme]

OK let's really kick over the worm bucket. If the state owns the deer how come someone can imprison them behind a high fence. :?

I've got mixed feelings on both of these issues (high fences and antler restrictions). I'm on a 1,000 acre lease near Uvalde with five other hunters all of who hunt with a rifle. I passed up a buck with an inside spread of about 17" because I thought he was a young deer, just to see him shot on opening weekend by one of the rifle hunters. I also saw four other young bucks with small racks taken. Odds are we will never have big deer on this place, at least not on a regular basis.

Where this gets to be a real problem is in counties that have a lot of small ranches/ranchettes (by this I'm talking of counties where most of the ranches are probably 300 acres or smaller). Here the bucks with the better genes don't live long enough to have any kind of breeding advantage (cause almost all of the bucks are killed when they are 1.5 years old).

Someone has to decide what is best for the majority. I'm not particularly a QDM person and no offense to either side of this, but most people seem to like the idea that they might have a chance for a bigger buck. To do that means letting most of the smaller ones walk. Especially on the smaller acreages.

[LostHawg]

Tomme, my problem with QDM is that I hunt for meat. I don't have a photo album showing all the deer I've shot, I don't have any taxy'd mounts on my wall, just memories of plates filled. I hunt for an adult deer and I abide by the laws of the state. Some of the laws I find suffocating, but I still abide by them because without law, we've got chaos and the herds will dwindle back to where they were in the 60s and 70s, maybe earlier. Its good to see the numbers coming back up. But, though QDM may net you more mature deer (which the meat gets coarser as the deer gets older), QDM does not fill a freezer. Its geared so that more people will be able to give the Chuck Addams grin at 3 feet behind, not so that those who are making most of their meals of chicken and potatoes can have an occassional change up in their menu. And that's my viewpoint on it.

Anyway, I hope you are all having a fullfilling season. ;)

[DoubleJ]

Again I have to say, if you want meat shoot does. One of the biggest factors of QDM is management of the doe numbers. For some reason some hunters have an aversion to shooting the does. They taste better and removing them actually improves the herd. I believe in the antler restrictions because I have seen the results firsthand. I own one of those small places that Tomme refers to and I have to agree with his statements. This year my freezers are full already with the 3 does I have taken. I will continue to hunt and harvest does thru the rest of the season and donate the meat. If I happen across a mature buck then I'll try to take him but my emphasis is on management of a healthy herd.

[rbridges00]

OK let's really kick over the worm bucket. If the state owns the deer how come someone can imprison them behind a high fence. :?

Also, as I've asked before, if the state owns the deer, then why don't they pay to fix my truck when I run over one? If it's their deer, they should be responsible for keeping it out of the road :shock:

It all boils down to money!!! I don't think you'll ever convince me any differently.

[Bossbowman]

Shoot some does if you want meat. True story - there are a couple of old guys I hunted with on a lease last year probably in there 60's and 70's. They did not believe in shooting does EVER. One of the younger bowhunters asked why this was so and they gave the most illogical answer, "because if we shoot the does there won't be any more deer in the future since they have the fawns", uh if ya don't have any bucks you won't have any fawns either. They seriously believed have a buck doe ratio of 1:30 was better than harvesting some of the does off.

[LostHawg]

When you hunt for the meat, you hunt for the available shot. Apparently you are thinking that deer walk by in droves for our selection. I have 5 tags. I'll be lucky to fill one this year due to the availibility of hunting lands and regs governing their use. I've spent over 100+ dollars for those tags (including public lands, fishing and turkey etc). Not to mention if I want to acquire a season lease or hunt a day lease. I can pay less than 40 for the same in other states. Most expensive hunting licenses I've purchased as a resident. If an adult deer presents me with a shot, I'm taking it based on the fact that I've bought the, as Tomme says, "privilege" to shoot one; actually 5 under state law.

QDM thinks of hunting as selective as a trophy hunter would. A meat hunter thinks of hunting as a means of acquiring meat the same as he/she would use an Albertsons. We use the resource for its intended purpose, we don't (usually) abuse that resource as some kind of game or "sport". A successful hunt ends with meat in the cooler rather than a peaceful walk in the woods. But, in a state that deems sitting 20 yards from a programmed grain broadcaster as an "Awesome" hunt, I'm not surprised in how readily folks would warm up to QDM. It's a livestock management program rather than wildlife management. You want to stir the pot Tomme? I can stir it too. See? :twisted:

Shoot, I'm happy taking a doe. Prefer a dry doe to any other deer. But, when a doe doesn't present a shot and a 2 1/2 year old forkhorn does, it sure is good eating when it all comes together.

[Bossbowman]

If you don't like the way the hunting culture is changing in texas I suggest you go back to arkansas.

[LostHawg]

So, you're saying we should all be of the same mindset or leave? I think we are all entitled to our opinion and respected as such. If we all agree on everything, then how will we affect improvements? How will we grow? We'll stagnate. I'm sorry you don't like for me to disagree. But, I come from a background different than many. I like to hear others' views because it allows me to build on my own opinions/concepts of how I feel things should be. However, I'm mature enough to take opposing opinions into consideration and not try to alienate the same.

The problem with me living in Arkansas was that too many folks couldn't get past my TEXAS birth certificate.

[Bossbowman]

Ok we agree to disagree, end of argument. By the way where do you hunt that its difficult to harvest even one whitetail for the entire season?

[rbridges00]

Ok we agree to disagree, end of argument. By the way where do you hunt that its difficult to harvest even one whitetail for the entire season?

Probably in East Texas where the new restrictions went into affect. I must admit, this year I've seen more deer movement in East Texas than I can ever remember, but in a normal year, it is not uncommon not to get an ethical shot on a deer all season. And I don't think antler restrictions are going to help that any.

[LostHawg]

Tom Green county. Twin Buttes Reservoir city property and San Angelo State park. The state park I haven't had time to really scout it out. The lake property has a lot of ATV traffic in the areas I've been hunting and come next weekend, shotguns with buckshot will be allowed and that brings on a whole new class of hunters.

Deer around the lake are extremely edgy. I've got a group of folks coming out to hunt rabbits out there the last weekend in February. You're welcome to come join in if you like. You can read about it in the trad forum on the TBH website.

[Bossbowman]

Ah old public land I've been in that boat, hunted public land in central texas exclusively from 2000 to 2003. Got at least one deer every year except in '03, but really had to work my butt off those first two years. Seems like I heard they just opened up san angelo state park to public hunting this year, good luck out there.

[Tomme]

Tracy you've lost me. Not sure where I said anything about the privilege to shoot one based on the license. Are you sure that was me?

I understand about being a meat hunter. I was one for years and still am. When I was feeding four kids I wanted at least 3 deer a year. I would shoot any doe and would take a shot at the first buck that walked by on the assumption that I would save my other buck tag for a "big one". I do agree with the idea that in most places if you are a meat hunter, a doe fills the bill and is tastier to boot. Today though I still hunt for meat, I only need one, maybe two deer to fill my needs and find that even when I was mainly hunting public land (Ft Hood) that I could be more selective.

Tracy it's only in recent years that I have limited my buck harvest to mature bucks. Part of that is that I like the racks and part of it is that there's more meat on a 125 pound 5.5 year old than a 65 pound 1.5 year old. Course with the kids gone I don't need as much meat as before. I'm proud of every deer I've ever taken with a bow, but do confess to a certain satisfaction in outsmarting a smart older buck. No one else has to agree.

As I said earlier I have mixed feelings on QDM and the antler restrictions. Again though I think you need to realize that you are in the minority when it comes to hunters wanting a chance at a big rack and in a democratic society, while you can disagree, you have to allow the majority it's will. Good luck on filling the freezer this year and remember that LSBA has big doe (skull) record contest too. :)

[LostHawg]

The word "privilege" not the license.

[T-Post]

There are always stand by positions open for the draw hunts.One of the guys who works at the Kerr wildlife managment area told me every hunt had openings.

[Bossbowman]

Not all bowhunts have standby positions, last year I know for sure granger, and kerr exotic only did not. This year they came very close to cancelling all the standby positions at richland creek, only a few got in, I was lucky enough to be one of them.

[Bill Decker]

This topic has come up on the tbot website and is a poll, go to www.tbot.org and cast your vote on this subject. It will be interesting to see the outcome. So far 32 people have voted and the restrictions are passing.

[LostHawg]

I just can't get past seeing it as though wildlife management is being treated as livestock management. Geared more and more in Texas to cater to those of higher income. When in fact, it should be geared more to those who NEED the MEAT.

Yes, poor people DO exist. I'm not making it up.

[MILNRICK]

The TBOT Poll is interesting. Can't wait for the results as to whether the majority of hunters are pro or con antler restrictions. Log me down as 'pro'.

I don't want to stir the pot any, but Antler Restrictions could, however, be the least of our concerns if the wrong folks get elected next week. Has anyone read Texas Fish and Game Magazine's article on the 4 candidates in the Governors Race? Could be scary.

Need for meat: I think a lot of bowhunters and hunters at large realize the need for meat, which is why they donate their surplus game to food lockers, soup kitchens, shelters and others.

Have a great weekend y'all.

[LostHawg]

Don't get me wrong. Though I disagree with a LOT of these restrictions, I still respect and will support the decisions of the majority. Because, if I disagree or agree and don't state my opinion then what benefit am I to the organization?

Jump on me if you want, that's fine, but if you're not active in an organization, you might as well drop out. JMHO. ;) I'd rather be a vocal minority than a silent majority.

[Bossbowman]

So what are the 4 candidates stances? Perry is a hunter even though he's still a jackass, and kinky is an anti, that about all I know.

[MILNRICK]

Bossbowman I think you've got the meat of the story already with what you said..... but, for anyone interested, the story is called The Governors Race, An Outdoors Scorecard on the Candidates, page 12 and page 14.

Bell seems to support the outdoors and identified accounting problems involving how taxes collected from the purchase/sale of sporting goods was spent.

Friedman, to quote the article, "talks teh talk and walks the walk of an anti-hunter and animal rights activist"... no need to say more.

Perry is an avid hunter and outdoorsman, even hunts with archery gear.

Strayhorn -- supports hunting mainly because her spouse was (or is) a hunter.

There are other comments and notations about each candidate but I think it's best for each of us to read and decide for ourselves.